Don't you guys think, though, that if that allegation had a leg to stand on, things would never have gotten to the point of him being elected? Just sayin'.

BO Obviously doesn't give a sh*t about the US. If he did, he'd just open the damn vault himself and prove to EVERYONE that he's legal.

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

Jude, I don't think so, because things get buried all the time so that "the machine" can push through it's own agendas. They wanted Barack in office, so he's there. They weren't going to give credence to anything that might put him in a bad light.

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

And like I said, if it's NOT true, why doesn't he just show the damn thing?

(Sorry, I'm not angry at you Jude, I'm just angry at all the half truths that we seem to get getting.)

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

I agree Mykie. People were so disillusioned by him it wouldn't matter if there was a leg to stand on or not.

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Hope is no basis for a defense policy. ~ Margaret Thatcher

Jude, the thought has definitely crossed my mind. Like why didn't McCain make a bigger deal out of this? I understand the media's obsession with him, so that would make it less likely to cover such a story, but that does not excuse McCain. I honestly do not know what to think. I would just assume that if it were not true that he would provide the proof to shut everyone up.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

"Like why didn't McCain make a bigger deal out of this? I understand the media's obsession with him, so that would make it less likely to cover such a story, but that does not excuse McCain."

Yes, but the media was actually quite eager to cover so-called scandals and questions about him, Cine. I feel we did hear plenty about the various questions of his citizenship and etc. There were also questions about McCain's eligibility to run given his birthplace as well, if I remember correctly.

We have seen copies of Obama's birth certificate. No, we haven't been able to physically touch, smell, and personally go to the Hawaii Department of Health to verify it, but we have seen it. And you'd think someone in the Hawaii DOH would have come out and questioned its reality and legitimacy if there was really any question.

It seems to me that the only ones still challenging this in the courts are those who are so disgruntled by his victory that they'll do anything to bring him down--I don't see any independent, unbiased groups or individuals raising these questions as matters of pure constitutionality. But that's just my take, and I'll stop bugging you guys here now

Yes there was Jude, but McCain proved he was qualified under the law of the United States. And I do agree the media was eager to uncover scandals, but they were just as eager to brush them under the rug when it came to Obama.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Barack Obama will be our next president, he will be my president, your president as well as Jude's president. At this point he deserves to be supported. If and when he proposes, imposes, or pushes for a law or policy you oppose, then by all means oppose it. Contact your elected officials, write your letters, etc., just do not demonize him. What was done to Bush was despicable, and only encouraged Al-Qaeda in Iraq and around the world.

Jude, that is a Live birth certificate, not a birth certificate. I do not believe it is the same.

Grandpa, just because there is a question in his ability to legally run for President does not mean I will not support him as my President. I think it is a subject that should be approached and proper documentation should be provided.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Grandpa - I understand what you're saying...but I can't support him until he does something good. Just like I kindof feel he'll never be my "Commander in Chief" with his lack of experience in that department.

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Hope is no basis for a defense policy. ~ Margaret Thatcher

Oh and Jude, you are never bugging us.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Brook, I very much so agree with you. It drives me nuts that people already say they are so proud of him as a president yet he has never done anything, even as a senator. Give the man a chance to achieve something, then I will make up my mind on how I feel about him as a president.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Huh, I didn't know those were different things. But it's an official State of Hawaii document stating that he was born in Hawaii--isn't that what matters?

Well, while I'll be rather irritated if there is some kind of hearing about this, I guess it would help to clear the air about this issue once and for all. But I feel like there will always be some who wouldn't believe it even after a hearing

Oh, and thanks, Cine.

Brooke, BO was duly elected, carried the majority of the popular vote, the majority of states, and has a majority in the Electoral College (Where it counts). He deserves our support, until such time as there is a policy to oppose. To say that you can support the man until he does some good, is not a fair standard. Look to the Hippocratic Oath. The first duty of a doctor (substitute president) is to do no harm. The man has not done harm as far as i can tell.

I know I'm in the minority in not supporting him as of yet, but what can I say...he needs to earn my respect.

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Hope is no basis for a defense policy. ~ Margaret Thatcher

Wow, well put, Grandpa.

Jude I have a live birth certificate, but they would not take it at the DMV when I went to get my license, they said it was not the same thing and I needed my birth certificate, something about the official seal. If I can't even get my license with it, you should not be able to use a computer generated one as proof of being eligible to be president.

Like I said, I am not saying he is not eligible, and agree many that are bringing this up are just pissed off people. It just seems to me it would be easier to provide the birth certificate and be done with it.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

You are right Grandpa, he has not done anything.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Oh, that is odd, Cine (about the DMV). Huh.

As I understand it, there are two separate issues casting questions over Obama's status.

Here's a synopsis of what I have read in a variety of other places.

First, the Hawaiian document. A member on another forum said that Hawaii issues these as *registration* documents. She received one when she lived in Hawaii and adopted a child from Korea. Also, there were a couple of non-partisan forgery experts who had serious issues with his specific form. One item was, IIRC, that is bore the same certificate number as his half-sister's.

Second, the current status of his citizenship. When he lived in Indonesia, he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather and attended school there. Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship at that time, and schools were only available to citizens. Also, I have read that he traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport as a young man.

Just to confuse things, his Kenyan grandmother is apparently on videotape stating that he was born there.

Personally, I wouldn't have much of a problem with his status *except* that it would be a simple and easy issue to dismiss, and he has not done so. That actually *causes* me to have questions.
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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville

Yeah. It was a giant pain.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

I agree- the rest of us can't get a driver's license or a passport without this documentation, so how has he made it this far without his actual birth certificate?

It's just strange.

"Personally, I wouldn't have much of a problem with his status *except* that it would be a simple and easy issue to dismiss, and he has not done so. That actually *causes* me to have questions."

Exactly!

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

But again, why wouldn't McCain do anything about this during the election? Of course I was curious about most of the things he did during the election.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

"But again, why wouldn't McCain do anything about this during the election? Of course I was curious about most of the things he did during the election."

Me too Cine. There were so many things he should've been talking about but didn't even touch.

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Hope is no basis for a defense policy. ~ Margaret Thatcher

Laine, that's my worry too. I'm not saying he ISN'T a true citizen, but why when it's in question doesn't he take the five minutes to prove that he IS.

It's the old adage that says, "If you refuse a lie detector test, you must be hiding something, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue."

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

The thought of Biden stepping into the presidency causes me to shudder. I have seen nothing from him that can convince me that he is not other then a blithering idiot.

That's a good point too.

Just a question that Grandpas post brought up, if by some wild coincidence they DID find that his BC is invalid and he wasn't legally able to run, would that void the entire election or would it put Biden in office?

I would think it would overturn the entire election wouldn't it? I'm not saying this SHOULD happen, I'm just curious.

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

Mykie I was wondering the same thing. I would think the only fair thing would be for a new election, but I am not sure how it would work.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

It would be a first, that's for sure.

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

I think the election would stand, just as it would stand if any president elect died before taking office. Remember we in reality voting for our representative to the electoral college. If for some reason the majority of the electoral college decided to elect me president rather then Obama, or McCaine, I would in fact be the POTUS, as per the constitution.

Yes, but if they say he wasn't legally able to run doesn't that take it back to the time when everyone was campaigning? If he hadn't campaiged no one could have nominated him and so on.

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If you always do as you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

Not at all, like I said we elect representatives to the electoral college. There have been instances where the representative to the electoral college did not vote for the man he was elected and pledged to vote for.

If he were disqualified *before* being inaugurated, I suspect that would invalidate the results.
If he were disqualified *after* January 20, Biden would step in.

Does that mean that Pelosi would become the VP (since Biden is head of the Senate, and she is head of the House)?? I honestly don't know. (No time to look it up at the moment.)
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The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville

Yes. If Biden were to become president, Pelosi would be VP. That is the most frightening thing I have ever written.

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

Heck I might forge some documents to keep Obama in office at the sheer thought of such a thing!

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

If Biden took over the presidency, he would appoint his vice president, subject to congressional approval. Look how Gerald Ford assumed the presidency. Spiro Agnew resigned, and Nixon appointed Gerald Ford, and then Nixon resigned the presidency, thus we had our first and only unelected POTUS